Can anyone help with this 'hypothetical' question please....
What would happen if someone owned an apartment in CT on a residential complex which they rented out for holidays to people (along with most of the others on the same complex) but some of the residents decided they were a bit hacked off with it and were going to trawl certain websites to find out which apts were being let out and report the owners to 'the authorities'.
Do you know who 'the authorities' are and what the penalties might be if it was proved that the law had been broken? Where is the line drawn at 'friends & family'?
One might be forgiven for thinking that in the current financial climate people in this hypothetical situation might think it was good that holidaymakers/tourists were being encouraged to stay on the island...hypothetically of course!
Any help would be very welcome...thanks.

Don't worry about it.
Sure these people can not prove you are renting out your apartment.
They can not prove that these people are not your family or friends.
And can not prove that you have received any money from them.

Maybe so Focker.....

But remember.....

You are breaking the rules of the residential complex.

Morally you are bang out of order as you agreed to those rules when you bought on the complex.

Everyone knows who are the illegal renters on a complex - and so they get a hard time from the other residents - do you want everyone cold shouldering you when you are on holiday there?

Make sure your tax returns are bang up to date - as all it takes is an anonymous phone call to the authorities and they will turn your finances upside down.

If its your Villa do you really want randoms staying in it all the time? The wear and tear will cost you in the long run.

It shouldn't matter whether we are in boom or bust - does the immigration and over crowding issue in London mean that I can murder 10,00 people to create a little space....?!! No.

Friends and family - use your common sense. I remember some joker on a Lanza website claimed that everyone he spoke to was a "friend"!!!!
But when we have let friends stay at our place we have charged them "mates" rates. Ie. covers the bills and thats it not a commercial operation.

Be very careful about p*ssing off the neighbours!!
As I said most illegal renters aren't declaring tax.

Thanks for the replies.

Let's say, in this hypothetical situation, that we were advertising the property for rent on a couple of well known websites and taking money and declaring every penny of it annually to the Inland Revenue. So our backs would be covered financially. But we acknowledge that we would still be breaking the law by renting it to anyone other than "friends & family". We would have been fully advised of the situation when we bought the property, but it was suggested that 'everyone does it' and not to worry about it. In fact, we might even have been advised to take loads of photos of it before the sale had gone through so we could get it on websites asap and start the bookings coming in straight away!
We understand that feeling is quite strong from the residents, hence their intentions to report all owners that are doing this.

Does anyone know who they would actually report us to and what the penalty might be?
Thanks.

Well we bought on a residential complex because we didn't want to be sharing with tourists and the noise that goes with that. We didn't want the weekly disruption of changeover day.
And yes we complain when it is obvious that someone has been trying it on because they knew the rules when they bought. There are plenty of tourist complexes so why try to play the system on a residential one?

Also think of the tourists who unwittingly rent a villa on a residential complex and find the residents cold shouldering them and complaining about a situation that they don't even know about.

If cash is an issue sell up and buy on a tourist complex.

You what ?

Quote "Well we bought on a residential complex because we didn't want to be sharing with tourists and the noise that goes with that. We didn't want the weekly disruption of changeover day."

You ARE a tourist !! And you DO actually arrive and depart in time with flights which I think qualifies you as changing over.

As has been said before a noisy 'tourist' will be gone soon but a noisy 'resident' (a true one, not one who resides in the UK) will always be there.

I know that's harsh and I'd feel annoyed myself and I DO have sympathy with any owner OR Residents in Lanzarote who have their peace spoiled by an obnoxious tourist but that's tough I'm afraid, WHO ever gets to choose their neighbours !

Caz,
There might be a point about the ‘moral’ perspective but I’d counter that with the ‘dumb’ perspective of someone who buys a property in a Tourist Resort and doesn’t expect tourists.
Yes expect your neighbours not to be too happy but it’s highly unlikely you’d ever get pulled up legally and if you do you’ll be the first, it’s not at all certain that there IS actually a law being broken – and imagine how THAT would appear in the current economic climate.
What I WOULD say however, is to make sure your guests know exactly what the situation is and that they are expected to show respect to the residents and owners and other guests.

Ole

Common foodie give us the rant about infaltables in the pool, that's a cracker !

If these residents were not able to rent out their properties then a lot of them wouldn't be able to afford them so you'd be living in an empty complex.

As Oleole said, if you want to avoid tourists why buy a property in a tourist resort on a tourist island.

Ole you are being naughty and Robert you've got the wrong end of the stick.

1)There is a differentiation legally in spain between residential and tourist complexes. I don't remotely know all the ins and outs but there is an element of 'elf and safety', security etc behind it. For example tourist complexes are supposed to have some sort of manned reception whereas residential ones don't.

2) People buy specifically on a residential development for the very reason that it is quiet. Ours prob only has 4 permanently occupied villas out of 25. The very reason Lanza is attractive to many as a second home is that very peace and quiet.

3) You are mixing up a tourist resort with certain areas within a tourist resort - though I think you are doing that with you tongue firmly in your cheek Ole!

4) At the end of the day a holiday home is a luxury - if you can't afford it then you shouldn't be buying one - especially if you are playing fast and loose with the rules.

5) As I said - why buy on a development which specifically prohibits doing something when you intend to break the rules?

Foodie, I am not being naughty, but maybe I got a tad bored for a moment !

Yes there is a legal perspective as to licences but as you suggest (and I don’t follow it either) it’s more H&S type stuff and in fact is safeguarding the ‘Tourist’ so that they aren’t sold unfit accom. I believe the manned reception is actually a key element (see what I did there – he he).

Yes people buy specifically on a residential development for the very reason that it is quiet and good luck to them I genuinely hope they get what they want but it guarantees nothing. Also, one person’s right to not be a neighbour of a ‘tourist’ is dwarfed by another person’s right to rent out his own property (tax being a side issue).

I am certainly not mixing up a ‘tourist resort’ with ‘certain areas of a tourist resort’ – ALL of it by definition is a TOURIST resort ! If not I declare my house in Manchester is in the Channel Islands and I’m not paying UK taxes !
Tongue not in cheek but stuck well out !
BTW, for anyone out there who really wants a residential pad in Lanzarote then I can recommend Arrecife, hardly any tourists there !

Points 4 and 5 spot on and in fact are possibly the most realistic view – don’t get yourself into the situation in the first place if at all possible.

Ole

Thats the problem with the rule of law - it has to be black and white and based on precedent. When you try to makle laws that seem common sense at one time like maybe having seperate areas for tourists and residential complexes, then someone tries renting and there is probably nothing to stop them after all the law can't stop you at the end of the day.

So its a cr*p rule and everyone loses out.


So basically if you want to rent it best to do it on the quiet and only the occaisional one to not p*ss off your neighbours.

I actually rented out an apartment on a "residential" complex for 2 years. I didn´t make noise or cause problems for anyone so everyone was happy.
We had a problem when 2 families arrived for a 2 week holiday and decided that because they rented for 2 weeks the complex was "Theirs". They were a disgrace to anyone! Pushing kids into the pool, coming back onto the complex at all times ie 1am-6am, drunk and extremely noisy. The owner of the 2 apartments was told by all on the complex if that happened again she would be reported to the authorities and also excluded from the community.
Myself and Julie were officially "breaking the rules" by staying on this complex but because we were (reasonably) well behaved even the community president was happy for us to be there.
You just have to be selective, don´t let people rent who you know can/will cause a problem.

Cy

not quite sure if you were there illegally as in your case you were on Long Let as opposed to holiday let and there lies the difference. You see if you have your residencia then you can claim residents rates for the water assuming the bills weren't included.

This debate has been going on for years as to can you can't you and I don't recall anyone here having been prosecuted for doing so, maybe one of the estate/letting agents can 'shed' some light on it, like that one Ole

Apologies for internet plagiarism but this is by far the best explanation I have read –

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A Royal Decree (by Nacional Parliament) of 1982 (RD 2877/1982 of 15th in October of 1982 (Nacional Official Bulletin of 9th in November), clarified the differences between touristic apartments and holiday houses.

According to that Royal Decree:

For touristic apartments, it is legally required the existence of proper furnishing, installations, services and equipments for immediate use and in order to their exploitation, an administrative licence is needed ( the marketing company needs to obtain it before the initium of touristic exploitation). (Supreme Court Decision of 17th of September 1993). The group of touristic apartments of every touristic development are all marketed by the same company. They must be sold as touristic apartments.

Holiday houses are unit of residencial houses, intended and sold for personal residencial use but that, of course, by title of ownership rights can be rented out. These are regulated in provision 17 of same RD of 1982 and defined as individual units of apartments, bungalows, villas, houses and similars and , in general, any dwelling which, regardless its furnishing conditions, equipment, installations and services, are offered for renting with touristic or holiday purposes.

To simplify matters as regards Lanzarote, if you own on a Touristic complex (Licensed with the Dept of Tourism) there must be a sole agency who runs all the letting on the site. This can either be the community itself or an outside agency. Either way the sole agency must have 50% +1 of the properties under its control in order to operate as the sole agency. The site must be licensed by the Dept of Tourism and owners can only rent out through the sole agents. If there is no sole agency because they cannot achieve 50% +1 then no one is allowed to rent. In the sales contract (when you purchased the property) it should have been clear that it is touristic and that you are under legal obligations according to that classification) If it wasnt, there can be a fraud involved.

If you own a property on a residential site then you are entitled to rent out your property long term with no restrictions, and to holiday let it to family and friends providing you agree the terms directly with your guests. There is no case law on what constitutes family and friends. Since the law was introduced well over a decade ago there has not been a single case brought against a private freeholder for contravention of the family and friends concession or for short term holiday lets in the Canaries. You have to ask why not. The answer is because the authorities know full well such an action would fail.

The Canarian government was cajoled into passing the Letting Laws by the large tour operators who threatened them because they feared the free and entirely legal competition from private individuals seeking to use their own property as they see fit. But the locals are Canarian (not stupid) and they soon realised that this law was ill founded and passed a revision which includes the concession to family and friends so as not to contradict the constitutional rights of its citizens. This revision was implemented in 2001.

Many statements have been made by elected presidents of villa and apartment communities intent on stopping holiday rentals in their community in an effort to impose their will on uninformed property owners. They are largely bluffing and bullying. Apart from the right of any citizen to inform the authorities of what they believe to be any infringements of any law (in this case Clause 38 of law 7/1995), they have no legal authority to impose their views and are seeking to exploit the unfortunate legal ignorance of owners. They are advised to study the Law of Horizontal Division in this respect and will find that to take decisions on who can let their property to tourists is not included in the powers of the community or a select group of owners and/or the president choosing the type of tourist acceptable to them. That power is solely in the hands of the tourism department. Of course, he or any other concerned citizen, may inform the tourism department that, in their view, a law is not being observed
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Ole

I disagree with the bit that it was brought in by the big tour operators - I have seen that explanation before and think it may have come from or have copied to the lanza.com site back in the "old" days by someone who was sailing very close to the wind on the friends and family description.


Anyway its a cr*p law as its totally unenforcable - but totally unfair on those who abide with it when others take the p*ss.

Well, there is plenty of food for thought there with all the info from you guys - thanks very much.

We don't see having the apartment as "a luxury". We bought it with the long-term plan of it being an investment and ultimately retiring there (albeit not for some years yet) and a nice thing for my step-daughter to inherit (hopefully not for a long time!).

Our plan was ideally to rent to "friends & family" but with ever increasing costs it meant we needed to rent it out as much as possible to cover the cost of the mortgage, utility bills etc. We always point out that it is a residential complex and ask people to respect that, which I'm sure most of them do as we mainly rent to families and couples, no all-girl or all-boy groups.

Thanks for all your replies. We'll be on the island next week and will be considering putting it on the market....anyone looking for a nice spacious 2 bed apt that sleeps 6....it's on a lovely complex.... lol